Controls that are assigned to a Panel are hidden by the Panel itself.

Question

MIDI Target Manufacturer(s): Yamaha

Recently I decided to investigate a bit more in creating panels to get more controls onto my layout without making it look too messy at some point. My goal was to have panels appear above other controls and use a switch to only bring them up when I need them. But I first couldn’t get the panel to appear above other controls that are not part of the panel but below the controls that belong to it. Panel set to „Always in Back“ results in the bad looking behavior shown in the image. If this is turned off the panel covers the controls that are part of it.

Whilst trying out different things I figured out that I have to turn off „Always in Back“ BEFORE adding controls to it. Then I get what I want. BUT: as soon as I just like to change the size of the panel or even just change the position slightly , the panel again hides my controls and I again have to un-assign all controls before I can assign them again. The video shows what happens.

0:52 shows exactly how it should work - even after re-positioning or re-assignments. 

Images

Image 1

Comments

OMG great bug report. Lovely, will mark as confirmed once we have repro’ed. Then we can try to fix. Thanks

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I guess the panel should be behind the member controls always

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Confirmed nice find thanks

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I think it's a missing feature involving being able to move a stacked object up or down the stack.

I have seen a similar thing happening when overlaying a Label over a button on a panel (to create buttons with colored text). It's a layering effect when stacked controls are placed over each other. In my case, the Labels need to be at the top and the Panel needs to be at the bottom with the buttons in between. When you select a button, it moves to the top. When you get them in the wrong order, you must select the one you want on top and double click or move it slightly to bring it to the top. You likely will have to set the Design Lock to prevent selecting the wrong item.

In my example, the Panel is Always in Back. If I need to change buttons, I lock Panels, Labels, and sometimes Shapes. Then select and modify the buttons. When finished I lock all but Labels, select the Labels then double click to bring them to the top.

When a button is not on a panel, Send to Back works, but not when the button is on a panel, which is always in back.

Some Graphic type programs with Layers have controls to move a layered object up or down in the stacking order. This would be a nice new feature for MDP.

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Fix coming in latest beta. Basically controls on panels will be stacked above those panels, and panels with members ignore alwaysInBack

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Dan, Two use cases you should consider addressing.
1. Small panels can be encompassed by a larger panel. The larger panel will be stacked in back of the smaller panel. The smaller panels will be stacked above, and can become a member of, the larger panel. Controls become members of a panel based on setting Allow Panel Controls. For example, moving the larger panel will move subpanels (and their member controls) as well as its member controls (if any).

2. For Hide and Show panels, provide an option to deactivate controls on the hidden panel. This addresses a question by another user (Ulrich) that wants to control multiple subcontrols (e.g., Pan, Mod, and FX) by one Supercontrol (such as from an expression pedal).  He wants to control which hidden control remains active and which become inactive. When inactive they should no longer respond to their Supercontrol. This will act as a switch to turn a path off.

Another option is to provide a Subcontrol Relationship Button Off Deactivates Subcontrol similar to Button Off Sets to Default.

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Hey Don thanks for the questions. We will consider the first, but it's always a trade-off between functionality and complexity. The second: that's never been considered. Can you make a new QA question with that feature suggestion (and it's variations)-- and link it here -- so we have it cataloged somewhere properly, please?

Generally speaking you can use Channel Changers to achieve the same effect and send to a channel that's not mapped to anything, but it's inelegant.

Thanks!
Dan

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Dan, Thanks for the response. For my second use case I am currently looking at using MidiFire to loopback the On/Off buttons from Output to Input and using input rules to change the midi output from the Foot Pedal to control the selected knob. I hadn't considered using Channel changers. I will add a QA question for a feature.

Don

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Thanks so much for realizing this fix quick. I am on vacation right now so will be on board again a little later.

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Release is out. I spent some time with QA checking out various edge cases, and... seems better in all ways. Thanks again for pointing this out in such a tangible way, and thank you EVERYBODY for the detailed, respectful conversation.

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Are you referring to the release of 2.251?

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Yes, and only the original issue

Answer 1

Fixed in Release 2.251 (2021-08-01)

We've got a fix in Beta now. The fix is simple:

1. Stack member controls above their grouping panels
2. Ignore "always in back" for grouping panels that have member controls

However, the fix takes care of most concerns. With the two actions that MD always uses, applied to grouping panels, a user can do most anything:

1. Touch a control to bring it to front
2. Send it back via "send to back"

Users should remember that Design Locks on iPad are extremely helpful here. 

NOTE: On iPad, panels that span pages from the left can't be behind panels that are on the right page.

Answer 2

Fixed in Release 2.251 (2021-08-01)

We've got a fix in Beta now. The fix is simple:

1. Stack member controls above their grouping panels
2. Ignore "always in back" for grouping panels that have member controls

However, the fix takes care of most concerns. With the two actions that MD always uses, applied to grouping panels, a user can do most anything:

1. Touch a control to bring it to front
2. Send it back via "send to back"

Users should remember that Design Locks on iPad are extremely helpful here. 

NOTE: On iPad, panels that span pages from the left can't be behind panels that are on the right page.