How to build a piano key that has note on/off AND y axis cc control

Question

I'm able to layer an xy pad on top of a piano button. However, the shape of the xy pad overlaps with black key next to a white key if I use a piano shape button. I tried a drum pad function instead but it seems fixed to volume cc 7. I want to have note on for the whole area of the piano key but send different values of my own cc # on the y axis depending on where your finger is vertically on the piano key. Anyway to do this? I have the Lite version currently.Thank you!

Comments

It's great that you're trying all this out with Lite. Would you mind giving me a bit of a bigger picture of what you need this for? It's sometimes possible to come up with different, viable solutions when we open up the problem a bit.

You're doing quite well in noting the limitations of MD regarding drumpads: they only affect Data2 (the "Volume" of the CC). In the future we're going to give you ways to manipulate different values, like the CC  number, but it's not happening yet.

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Perhaps by backing up and understanding the problem more generally we can figure something out, or at least get down to a coherent feature request. Thanks for your question and for checking out MIDI Designer!

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Thanks for the replies. In short, I want to build a keyboard with the usual note on/off on every piano key. Simultaneously, I want a different value (1-127) sent on, for example cc message #14, depending on where your finger is on the vertical axis of each key. I was able to do this using the app TB Midi Stuff, but Midi Designer has the potential to be more customizable per piano key. :-)

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Thanks. I'll try some stuff out tomorrow morning and see how this can be done in MD. The problem, as I see it, is that a drumpad cannot also be a normal on-off, so whatever subcontrols it has, though they might send another CC, will always be sending the "volume" of the drumpad. Also, drumpads only go down to 40% of min-max range. Hmmmm... what's your MIDI target and why do you want this?

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Thank you. I'm actually kinda protyping an idea for an app i want to build. I wanted to build a midi into plug-in version first to play with it to see if it is as cool in real life as it is in my head. I was able to get it working with another controller app today (TB MIDI Stuff) and Ableton Live. I'd love to configure things like this in your app to use for live shows and in composition as well. Your app looks great for getting things out of my head into physical use :-)

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Have you tried using Extra CC & Hold? It might do some of what you want with the Y axis of an XY pad. You could not do piano shapes, however. http://mididesigner.com/qa/7/extra-cc-and-hold

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Y-axis expressive Piano keys sounds like fun.

Quite often, when keyboardists play expressive pieces, you will see the performer either slide their fingers up the keys or wobble the keys almost as if they are willing some sort of effect from their keyboard that does not exist.  Some do.  

  Of course, with expression pedals, modulation wheels and pitch benders, there are already a number of options for players to express themselves but that has not stopped innovations designed to bring the controls closer to the player.  Jeff Tripp's amazing Hyperkeys ( http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2011/10/08/the-hyperkeys-3-dimensional-musical-keyboard-the-lamborghini-of-keyboards/ ) and the Polyphonic aftertouch on the likes of the mighty Yamaha CS80.

  Having a piano key with an assignable Y 'touchpad' or 'ribbon' would allow the user to choose filter, vibrato, bend or other modulation effects as well as playing the note.

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Indeed. Having a aftertouch per key would be sooo cool. The great thing about MD is u could set it up exactly to your own unique stylee..drools  ;)  <3

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My understanding has been that per-key aftertouch is not commonly used. If you don't mind, can you please give me a valid MIDI target that I can download to my Mac or my iPad (cheap = better)?

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Aftertouch may not be the best argument to implement such a feature but virtual velocity sensitivity would be.  In fact, you can set the piano keys as a drum pad right now but the values radiate from the middle.  All you would need is Y only from bottom to top and job done ;) It would allow pseudo velocity sensitivity or assignable modulation or pure experimental use.  For the same reason Drum Pads need it, it would transform the keys from a plinky piano to a more expressive form of input.

  The only problem from a practical point of view is that you would need fairly sizable keys on the screen to allow reliable use and that would see you run out of keys pretty quick I would imagine.

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Drumpads, if they are tall, go from bottom (40%) to top (100% velocity). If they are wide they go from left to right. Does that change the discussion at all? http://mididesigner.com/drumpads-in-midi-designer/

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Actually I'm not sure if aftertouch is  what I mean - basically I want a way to control apps like Animoog, PPG Wave apps, Magellan-select touchpad+turn off arp, Grain Science-ribbon mode, etc - by sliding my fingers up/down keys. I think these apps are using different methods to do the same thing - the PPG apps seem to have the best midi implementation, Magellan is the cheapest I think.

Re tall drum pads - Altho great for regular playing this doesn't let u smoothly slide up/down to control volume, etc over time.  Many thanks!  <3

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Yeah, if you've played something like Animoog, you know the extra expression control you get with vertical movement on keys. If this were assignable via cc messages, you could control most anything in some synths, filter frequency, delay sends, lfo speed, arpeg values, etc. possibly individually on each key. Volume (drum pad feature) is cool, but assignable parameters like cc messages, pitch bend, etc. would open up a LOT of expressive sound options :-)

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So it's a key that sends two MIDI messages (A and B). Touch-on sends A, movement sends B, and lift-off sends A (zero or note-off, let's say). Is that what we're talking about, kind of?

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Basically, yes. A potentially easy feature upgrade would be to add the functions of the x-y controller as an option for the piano key. This way, people could layer the xy piano key on top of the standard note on/off key. A better implementation would be to have the second y option right on the piano key button so you don't have to use 2 button layers. Just a thought!

Answer 1

Re key sending 2 msgs - maybe, but it's deeper than that...

...The A, B method u describe would send global filter cutoff (for example) values, eg if I hold C3 & G3 low on the keys, then slid up c3 only, both notes would be played with fully open filters.  The apps I mentioned (Animoog & PPG 1s are easiest to test) somehow do it per key, which is why I called it AT - so in the eg above, only C3s filter would open, whilst G5 would stay low.  Not sure how they is doin it tho..

Many thanks, & all the best  <3

Answer 2

Re key sending 2 msgs - maybe, but it's deeper than that...

...The A, B method u describe would send global filter cutoff (for example) values, eg if I hold C3 & G3 low on the keys, then slid up c3 only, both notes would be played with fully open filters.  The apps I mentioned (Animoog & PPG 1s are easiest to test) somehow do it per key, which is why I called it AT - so in the eg above, only C3s filter would open, whilst G5 would stay low.  Not sure how they is doin it tho..

Many thanks, & all the best  <3