Numeric Keypad to Send Channel-Bank-Prog Change (for Kurzweil K2700)

Question

MIDI Target Manufacturer(s): Kurzweil Music Systems

Basic need is to have a way to send a random program change with a single keystroke. (Tap)

I envision a 10 key numeric keypad, with CLEAR and ENTER buttons, and a display field. You to type in a patch change number, have the display field show the numbers as typed, then tap the “enter” button to send the patch change. it would basically look like a calculator

Ideally be able to enter a four digit number and have the app parse it into bank followed by program change, to mimic the patch numbering system of my Kurzweil K2700.

it would also be nice to have a mode where you could enter channel, bank, program change which will allow you to send the change to any destination in a complex midi rig. You would enter a decimal or similar as a separator character…

Grok was telling me that this app can do it, kept referring to being able to have a button send a character to a display control and also kept mentioning being able to use scripting but I couldn’t find any mention of that in the manual…

Guidance appreciated, thank you

Comments

This is not an answer, and our answer guy is out on leave for a week or so. We'll circle back. But in the end, some comments.

First of all, you have StreamByter for scripting, so if you look that up, that's an option. But I don't even think that's relevant in this case. You definitely cannot do a numeric pad where you type in numbers in MIDI Designer currently. However, you could dial up channel bank and prog change and then hit send and get it to move. That's certainly possible. That's actually pretty easy, and you don't even need StreamByter for that.

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Thanks for your attention to this… I assumed by “dial up“ you mean scrolling a list or something? Great to know that would work but I can already do that on the instrument. What I need is something where I can instantly get to any patch… As I’m playing I can type in the number I know I’m gonna want… it sits there until I need the patch and then I hit enter and boom… In live performance there’s no time to scroll and select something from a list…

I know how I could set up a screen of buttons for particular patches, but I would really love to have something more flexible… I play jazz and don’t know what songs I’m gonna be playing on the gig and certainly don’t wanna have to always use the same sounds… It’s a great way to experiment by being able to instantly try a patch…

I have a Hardware 10 key that works this way but it requires some kind of host connection and a midi cable… really hoping I can find some way to just do it with my iPhone and a Bluetooth midi adapter

There is a Midi program change app that does exactly this but is limited to sending 1 through 128… if I’m exploring the sounds on my instrument and find a great one with the number of say 5266, I don’t wanna have to try to remember which bank I need to shift to and what number I have to send it to directly address that patch

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By "dial up" I mean any variable control: knobs, sliders, pickers, or even XY pads (likely three: channel changer supercontrol + bank/prog change or bank & prog change). So yeah... no current way to type in to MIDI Designer. I can see why typing in a number is attractive and we'll consider it for the future.

Thanks for the discussion.

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This is now a "suggestion" so we can find it more easily. Thanks and please do circle back if you find an app or workflow that enables what you want to do in 2025.

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There are probably many circumstances were being able to type a value in directly would be useful so I would love to see this feature implemented at some point

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While we're here, Will, feel free to give any detail or color on how such a panel would work. Of course we'll figure it out when the time comes, and hopefully it doesn't requiring getting a Kurzweil K2700 (though we're not above it), but your perspective and notes are interesting, of course.

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I think a general approach would be more appropriate… Just the ability to type in a specific value and send it with a single key stroke… I think the first function needed is a display area that other controls could input characters into. Maybe even have a generic “10 key“ control rather than have to add individual buttons

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Back in battery, and thinking on this.  I think we can do it, but give me a little time - juggling a few things right now.

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Got the keyboard entry working now - video on FB group for now.  

Will get the keyboard cleaned up, documented, and posted in a few days.  This keyboard should have good general use across MD layouts.

Best question I have had in a while.   Real meat is only 41 lines of SB code.  Prolly also need to do a hex version 0 - F input.

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thanks JK. Your video is here

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1507885269439812/?multi_permalinks=4305715262990118

Fascinating!

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WOW! Really impressive! Can’t wait to try it… thanks!

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Now posted at: https://mididesigner.com/qa/10346/numeric-input-keypads

If there is some logic to parsing the K2700 four digit numbering, I can add that.  But I did not find it in a quick scan of the K2700 manual.

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Also interesting that Grok sort of understood the basic concept of how this was put together.  If I post too many of these solutions I will be out of a hobby as AI takes over.

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Yeah, AI has many of us questioning our future relevance.

Kurz uses the obvious scheme of combining Bank Select LSB (CC 32) and Program Change messages to recall patches, so for my current need-

entering 0-127 sends CC32 0 + PC 0-127
entering 128-255 sends CC32 1 + PC 0-127
entering 256-383 sends CC32 2 + PC 0 -127
etc....


An alternate implementation would facilitate entry as "bank.PC", i.e.-

entering 4.100 sends CC32 4 + PC 100

this could be extended to include channel-

entering "3.4.100" sends CC32 4 + PC 100 on channel 3- this could be very useful in a complex live rig.

Although Kurz uses either CC0 or CC32 for Bank Select, for universality the various options need to be considered, different combinations of CC0 and CC32 are used for bank select.

I've been using the hardware MIDI Patch Changer Keypad by Music Technologies Group- it's pretty well thought out- you might check out the documentation for ideas. Having this functionality in an App with WiFi MIDI would be super convenient.

http://musictechnologiesgroup.com/midipatch.htm

quote from the web page:

Manual mode lets you send Program Change as well as optional Bank Select MSB and LSB.
 
Preset mode sends program-change-per-MIDI-channel as well as Bank Select on all 16 channels simultaneously -- per preset.
Send 180 bytes of MIDI data of your choice ...controller data, system exclusive, RPN, NRPN or anything! ... per Preset. (v3.00+)
Holds 200 Presets. (v3.00+)
 
Chain mode let you build a song list or Preset list for even faster performance live.
Holds 99 chains of up to 18 Presets each. (v3.00+)
 
Speed Dial hot-key combinations all access to your 9 favourite Presets. (v3.00+)

(end quote)

The most important feature of this is to not send anything until the Enter is pressed; while playing, you can quickly type in your patch#, it sits there until you need the patch, then one keystroke calls it up. Might be great to have the Enter button be as large a target as is possible.

This is so great that you've done this... let me know where I can make a $$ contribution to your continuing attention.

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Got an improved version posted now.  It does include the Bank LSB / Program Change split.  Nothing happens until you press the execute button, which you can make as large as needed.

We have built a setlist manager in MD.  I may need to go back an see if it can be freshened up.  Adding the keypad for direct access is an obvious upgrade.  https://mididesigner.com/qa/10216/flexible-setlist-manager?show=10216#q10216