best way to send midi data with a template counting 250 controls and using presets

Question

MIDI Target Manufacturer(s): Roland

Hi all,

I almost finished a midi designer pro 2 template that can control the Boss Katana Guitar amplifier.

The amp can be seen as a guitar multi fx with amp modeling section, modulation effects section, delay section, FX section overdrive section, etc.

The amp itself stores 8 presets and I want to use the preset function of mididesigner: one supercontrol and 250 subcontrols.

they recommend 12 presets for this supercontrol.

Is this the best way to achieve this or should I think different?

I would like some tips to set up the midi data flow in the most effective way to the amp.

Thanks in a advance!

Gurbz

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Answer 1

You could do it that way, but I would recommend dividing the presets to smaller groups.  In your list above, maybe a preset for each of:

   amp modeling section, modulation effects section, delay section, FX section overdrive section, etc.

This way you can mix and match presets, and they are much more manageable this way.  Six good mod presets can can be used with nine FX presets, etc.  If you choose logical groups, the 12 presets per group are prolly good enough.  Say you have nine smaller groups x 12 presets per group = a really lot of combinations.  One big group x 12 presets = 12 complete settings.

One rule of thumb I use is to keep items grouped in a preset on a single page.

Comments

Thanks, I will give that a try today!

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This could also be an exiting option: pressing a button (katana has 3 fx on/off buttons corresponding with three fx sections,  each split in 2 compartments) )which turns a section on and off. When turned off NO midi data is being sent. This way the midi data stream to the amp would be most effective, eliminating possible system freezes etc.

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Do you think it possible to:

Send only midi data that changes instead of sending all data when changing a preset? Motivated: for example the FX2 section has delay a and FX compartments. So when selecting delay there is no need to send FX data. There can be only one compartment being used so I try to figure out how to optimise this. Any tips?

Vheers,

Gurbz

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No, a group preset sends all values, even if the value has not changed.  This is another good reason to segregate presets into logical, related groups.

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Ok, thanks for your fast reply again.
I understand what you mean (I think) but one thing puzzles me: if we have segegration and small related groups then I figure I need a supercontrol of 12 presets that to combine the other supercontrols. In the end I hook up a midi pedal board and hope to play patches real live. Probably my thinking is limited but do I end up with 12 presets after all because the master supercontrol has the 12-preset limit?

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With your concept, the master preset should have more.  I know up to 128 works.  On your master preset page, make a copy of each of the sub-preset masters.  With good names on your sub-presets, this will make it easy to make your combinations.  This might even make a good master page for performance.  You can see master preset 1 includes "Super Chorus", "Bass Boost", "House Reverb", etc.

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I ‘m missing something I think.
Ok, so:

- I copy supercontrol amp modeling section;
- I copy supercontrol FX section;
Etc

I make these subcontrol of a master supercontrol (12 presets) and copy that master master a 12 times? Sorry, I don’t get it yet.

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O, you mean: master super control can have 128 presets instead of 12?

Answer 2

You could do it that way, but I would recommend dividing the presets to smaller groups.  In your list above, maybe a preset for each of:

   amp modeling section, modulation effects section, delay section, FX section overdrive section, etc.

This way you can mix and match presets, and they are much more manageable this way.  Six good mod presets can can be used with nine FX presets, etc.  If you choose logical groups, the 12 presets per group are prolly good enough.  Say you have nine smaller groups x 12 presets per group = a really lot of combinations.  One big group x 12 presets = 12 complete settings.

One rule of thumb I use is to keep items grouped in a preset on a single page.

Answer 3

The master presets will have 128 locations.  If you do not accept the default 12 option, you will need to manually turn on named ticks so the presets can be named.  Here is a quick draft of the layout.  Also, do not use recall buttons on the sub presets, since the recall function will not pass through.  You can have a recall on the master -- as shown in this draft.

Images

IMG_0087.jpg

Comments

Thanks Dan, group presets for now.
Master presets recalls with a momentary button subgroup presets with a recall toggle button. This way it can be decided which subgroup preset will be recalled in the masterpreset.

However: there are more options to send out batch data in MDP2.
With a midi-usb host who’s buffers are limited the question is which method works best. In this design of the katana template (more to come) I have to work with these limitations.

Questions: will global preset work better with master throttle control? Maybe it’s a option to start using send page control? I’m gonna try all options anyway but it will take time so maybe you could give your opinion on the best odds for optimising this template. About the midi-usb host: the primovasound midx-20 is a popular option for boss katana users to get access to the internal affairs of the katana. It is geared towards real live CC control, not big presets. That is something we have to try however and were trying to outsmart its buffer limitations with clever preset design and MD has a lot of options.

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Hi gurbz, Mitch chiming in here.  This is an awesomely massive thread so excuse me if I'm a little behind!  I do not have experience with the midx-20 so I can't comment on that.  But personally for precise control/limiting the amount of data sent I prefer writing my own rules in Stream Byter as the customization options are highest.  First however, for ease of use in your situation, I would try the vintage throttle described in the Evernote that Dan posted above(I know there is a current crash going on there, fix is coming).  Doesn't that address your question?  
Cheers,
Mitch

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Throttle adjustment crash fixed in latest Next beta. Thanks!

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Mitch: thanks! Vintage throttle is my weapon of choice right now.
It is vintage but it seems to work, takes a few seconds to load a preset.
I am interested in your streambyter rules, math was not my strong suit
Dan: thanx! MDP2 rocks, never spend so much time with an app on the couch.

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I'm glad it is working out for you. I've only written rules for very specific circumstances with guitar pedals in Stream Byter.  But that is what it is perfect for, making rules for rare and unique situations.
The Streambyter rules don't require much math although it is a pseudo-code language so you do have to puzzle that part out.  However there is also an active Stream Byter forum and Nic, the creator, is very active and helpful on there as well.

Answer 4

The master presets will have 128 locations.  If you do not accept the default 12 option, you will need to manually turn on named ticks so the presets can be named.  Here is a quick draft of the layout.  Also, do not use recall buttons on the sub presets, since the recall function will not pass through.  You can have a recall on the master -- as shown in this draft.

Images

IMG_0087.jpg