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LAYOUT: Yamaha SY77/TG77 Voice Editor - MIDI Designer Q&A

Rating: PlatinumLAYOUT: Yamaha SY77/TG77 Voice Editor
by
ibo-kai

+1 vote
Rating: Platinum
Platinum
asked Jun 10, 2015 in Community Shares by ibo-kai (1,850 points)
edited Nov 30, 2016 by MIDI Designer Team
we probably need to discuss what we could provide on our side to make your Algo Select page better. I guess you could lower the alpha of those images by a tiny bit, but that's not really the big money.
I modified to get to version 1.42 (admin mod), and posted some images here. There are going to be 10 in all. I think the algo's page came out pretty well. This is such an amazing layout and represents such an awesome amount of work: we've been very careful to respect Ibokai's vision and implementation.
Yeah! Great work, guys!!!!!
Just uploaded new layout (1.45), adjusted labels to reflect both MIDI targets (SY77 and TG77) and moved some stuff about. Redid all the screenshots, again, too. Please let me know if anything is broken! Thanks to IboKai, again, for this enormous work!
Looks fantastic! I have 3 x SY99 and wonder, if this editor would also work for them? I basically want to modify the AFM Elements, which are identical between SY77/99 ... anyone tried it?

2 Answers

+1 vote
I've just tried this great layout yesterday on my SY77, and it works great! I'm using Line 6 MIDI Mobilizer II because the first gen Alesis I/O Dock does not do Sys Ex. It seems to work strait away even with just the iPad midi out connected to the midi in on the SY whether the bulk switch is on or off. sY's MIDI receive is set to OMNI. When I run the midi out of the SY back into the iPad, the SY oddly gets forced into edit mode with a press of the sustain pedal. Just have to be sure to press Cancel when changing patches so not to overwrite some valued sound. Love that Compare button. So wish a couple of my newer synths hadn't overlooked this essential function.

I digress. This is a great programmer for the TG/SY77. Thanks a ton! Still such a deep beastie this architecture is.
answered Sep 7, 2015 by brenner13 (160 points)
Thanks, glad you like it! And good to know it works fine with the MIDI Mobilizer. I never tried such a "direct" connection, I always route everything through my Mac and Cubase.
The switch to Edit mode when pressing the sustain pedal sounds pretty odd indeed. No idea what that could be...
Yes, a Compare function is always very useful. On those boards which doesnt have it, I always need to look for an empty sound memory or one that can be overwritten, before I even start making a new sound. Also I try to archive as much as possible on my computer, I use an old copy of Sounddiver for that.
And yes, the SY/TG77 is very deep! I couldn't even cover everything in the layout and the element switching is not perfect (as the controls would not adapt to the values of the elements), but still it helped me a lot creating voices far quicker and easier than on the machine itself, giving me more time to experiment around - there is a lot to experiment with!
@brenner13, this is going to be released as a standalone app. Can I add you to the beta team?

Thanks!
Dan
+1 vote
Hi! Thanks for the great work. I'm new to MidiDesigner, so maybe I'm just missing something obvious. But is it possible, to initialize the editor with a patch from the synth? I tried sending bulk data for single voices, but MidiDesinger doesn't seem to react to these. When I edit individual parameters on the synth, their values are correctly set. But it would be really helpful to transfer all parameters of a patch, so that it can be modified from MidiDesigner. Is there a way to do this?
answered May 31, 2016 by florian-weiler (180 points)
Sorry for the late reply! Unfortunately that does not work. Handling single parameter changes works via the "parameter change" sys-ex command. This is what you would program into a MD control. The synth will then respond to this one parameter to be changed. In case of the TG/SY 77 even the synth itself sends such commands, when editing parameters in the synth, so here it works in both directions. However voice bulk is a different kind of data package than parameter changes with a different header. Unfortunately MD cannot understand this kind of package and is not able to split the package into the single parameters and finding the controls in the layout to allocate the values correctly. This is somehow understandable due to the nature of sys-ex data, where the data structure will be different from device to device. It would be necessary for the user (the maker of the layout) to somehow specify the voice bulk content first or MD would need to have an analyse function for this. Maybe something for a future update...
By the way in fact there is a work-around, which Helfried uses in his Reface DX layout. He uses a supercontrol to make each control in the layout to send a parameter request to the synth, which in return sends the according value. So instead of using a voice bulk (all parameters in one data package), each parameter is sent separately and this way each control can get the correct value. However due to the way this works, it would double the number of controls in the layout and this would be totally impracticle for the TG editor , which already comes to the limits (plus the huge effort to make it, honestly speaking).
Ok, i already guessed that after playing around with it a little more, and also refreshing my memory on how sys-ex works. But you say, there is a sys-ex command, which requests an update for each single parameter? Would it then be possible, to add ONE control to the layout, which sequentially send ALL sys-ex requests to the synth?
As I mentioned before, it would be possible, but a huge workload and would make the layout slower and maybe even crashing. The reason is that for each (!) function you would need a dedicated button (hidden in performance), which sends the parameter request to the synth. Then you would make that one button, which as a Supercontrol triggers all the other buttons. That´s why you would double the number of controls, which is right now several hundred already. Of course del free to try ;-)
Then maybe this would rather be a suggestion to the Midi-Designer team: My idea was, that there could be a SINGLE control that would sequentially send all sys-ex requests to the synth, not a supercontrol triggering individual ones.
Just one control, containing a probably huge sys-ex string. But that string could be compiled on a Desktop PC, would probably just be a lot of copy&paste work. As long as the button isn't pressed, it shouldn't significantly affect the layouts performance.

To the MD Team: Is this possible? Could it be added for MD 2?
By the way I meanwhile found, that helfrieds method is definitely not possible with the TG77, because the TG does not support parameter requests (like many other older synths).
@Florian sorry I missed this comment for the feature add. Can you open that up as a standalone suggestion here on the Q&A site, or perhaps send us an email to support at mididesigner.com? Thanks!
Yes, Florian, please make this a new question in the "suggestions" category. I would love to support that one!
Allright, done!
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